WWJD? Would Jesus Spank?
10/02/2007 at 07:21 AM

Never!

"It's better for someone to have a heavy stone tied around his neck and thrown into the sea than for that person to offend one of these little children."

- Jesus Christ

***************************

That is what he thought about someone hurting a child.

"People are not for hitting, and children are people too."

I am totally against spanking but why are we dragging jesus into these discussions. I find this offensive. We are not all christians.

cid
1920

There are many religious people out there and they use the "spare the rod" quote at the mere mention of spanking...   I was simply stating Jesus was against any type of violence towards children.  Personally, I believe the world would be a better place without religion and if the bible was never written.  So many people don't think for themselves and take the bible as if God wrote it, versus the truth...  which is it was written by men. 

cid
1959

Of course Jesus would do what the Word of God (Bible)says, and that is chastising from a standpoint of love.  

The Bible says - Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him." - Proverbs 22:15 

and again,

"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die." - Proverbs 23:13 

And this from Jesus Himself: "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." - Revelation 3:19

The Apostle Paul said, "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? " - Hebrews 12:7

The answer is loud and clear.  Yes Jesus would spank.

 

cid
2603

The main ingredient missing in so many of these debates is the question of the motivating principal behind spanking. Yes, it's true that the Bible can CLEARLY be shown to not only endorse spanking, but one could reasonably argue a responsibility to do so. The previous poster put up many verses to this effect, and I won't belabor the point, but it is very, very clear from scripture that pain is involved in the process of maturing, whether it is physical, emotional or spiritual maturation. Also, the entire idea behind all biblical discipline is that a little pain now will save a lot of pain later. THAT is the corporal punishment scripture supports.

What so many anti-spanking advocates see is that there are, in fact, many parents who are out of control when they use corporal punishment. This cannot be argued against. Also, there are a lot of examples today of the parents of previous generations that thought beating/abusing a child was a fair expression of physical discipline. This couldn't be further from the truth, and they were absolutely, dead wrong. That is NOT the discipline that scripture supports.

There is a logical tension between the two ideas of not offending one of the little children and being held responsible by God to raise a child properly. Fortunately, there is a middle ground. That middle ground is discipline, corporal/physical or not, that is applied wisely, with good knowledge of the child, and with an eye to improving the child through training rather than merely serving the selfish ends of getting them to stop annoying behavior. Blindly beating a kid every time he/she annoys you does not meet these criteria. Knowing your child, knowing the situation, and knowing what form of discipline/punishment fits the current situation is vital to disciplining a child in a manner pleasing to God.

With that said, any and all discipline must be done with the utmost care and cautiousness, because God will demand an accounting of the life he entrusted with us.

cid
2604

The Bible and Slavey:

"The Oracular Decisions of God have positively declared that the Slave-Trade is intrinsically good and licit, [and that the holding of slaves] is perfectly consonant to the principles of the Law of Nature, the Mosaic Dispensation, and the Christian Law"

-Charles Jared Ingersolls African Slavery in America

Reasons not to hit ("spank") your (rather God's) child:

Plain Talk About Spanking
http://nospank.net/pt2009.htm

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm

cid
13043

Christians who don't feel Jesus would hit a kid:

Christians For Non-Violent Parenting

Parenting in Jesus' Footsteps
- www.parentinginjesusfootsteps.org

Desmond M. Tutu, Archbishop Emeritus

United Methodist Church: (UMC General Conference, May 3, 2004, resolution rejecting corporal punishment by parents and caretakers)

The list keeps going, but seriously, it's like Abraham Lincoln ( a non-spanker by the way) said:

"When I do good, I feel good. When I do wrong I feel wrong and that is my religion"

cid
13044

Junieg -

Some people are Christians and if we want to pose a question about what Jesus would do, then we have the right to do so. It's too bad that you are offended, but understand that many of us have been offended by discussions here. As long as we respect each other, we should be able to pose a question about Jesus, spanking or many many other topics.

I have benefitted from some of the answers about whether Jesus would spank a child or not. If you are offended, don't participate in this particular post.

cid
13049

Hey Tamz, check the date on my post. About two years ago and now you are pointing out that I don't have the right to give an opinion on this claptrap. I am not offended, but do have the right to voice that opinion. Give me a shout in another two years if you have a problem.

cid
13059

J -

My apologies on the timing of my response and of course you have a right to voice your opinion - we all do.

cid
13061

I nanny for a Jewish couple who NEVER physically dicipline their children. After reading this thread, I plan to ask them if their decision is based on religion.

Being brought up in a household where striking was the norm I made the decision at a young age not to hit my own children. My children and I talked things out and they learned from the many discussions. I personally cannot think of any reason to hit a child. Children are so defenseless and deserve to be respected and taught right from wrong by our example and love, not by having pain inflicted by someone who has been entrusted to keep them safe from harm.

What I find ironic is that those who spank/strike their children would have someone else arrested for doing the same thing to the child. What I ask people when this comes up in discussion is if they would hit a child who is not their own for the same infractions. The reply is always that they would not. But, people have the right to raise their children however they want so I try not to get offended but do feel so sorry for the children who are being physically and emotionally hurt in the name of dicipline.

cid
13064

I respect your opinion, but I find it very irritating when religious fanatics shove their beliefs down the throats of others. Just because someone spanks thier childs bottom dosen't make them a bad person/parent. there is a big difference between spanking and abuse!

cid
24564

A good friend of mine, who also happens to be a pastor, once told me that those who believe in the bible, rarely know it. This is one of those cases, from what I see here.

The phrase that you use you either do not understand, or are using out of it's context.

Matthew 18:6 and Mark 9:42 are speaking about those who would take a child that believes in God and move him in to sin, or have him lose his faith in God. That is the offense, not a spanking by a parent.

So, if you wish to live by the bible and what it says about discipline take a look at Proverbs 13:24"He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

Proverbs 22:15"
Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."

Proverbs 29:15"The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame.

Proverbs 23:13 "Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.23:14 "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

cid
24605

These offenses against children are more serious than an occasional traditional barehanded swat on the seat: demeaning the child, providing a sexualized atmosphere, exploiting the child in some way, threatening abandonment. I notice that "offend" is not defined in the scripture. Feeding a child anything other than chocolate and french fries may be considered offensive by a child.

cid
24606

The post asks whether Jesus would "spank" or not. Nothing concerning "demeaning the child, providing a sexualized atmosphere, exploiting the child in some way, threatening abandonment." was mentioned in the original question. I would venture to guess that most everyone on here and even Jesus himself, would be against the things you mentioned.

Yes, I know that "offend" was not defined. Here below is the same chapter and verse and how it is defined in about 16 different versions other than the wording used by the King James Bible.

As for feeding the child chocolate and french fries, this is not about a childs description of offend.

New International Version (©1984)
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.

English Standard Version (©2001)
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

International Standard Version (©2008)
"If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a large millstone were hung around his neck and he were drowned at the bottom of the sea.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"These little ones believe in me. It would be best for the person who causes one of them to lose faith to be drowned in the sea with a large stone hung around his neck.

King James Bible
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

American King James Version
But whoever shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

American Standard Version
But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.

Bible in Basic English
But whoever is a cause of trouble to one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have a great stone fixed to his neck, and to come to his end in the deep sea.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Darby Bible Translation
But whosoever shall offend one of these little ones who believe in me, it were profitable for him that a great millstone had been hanged upon his neck and he be sunk in the depths of the sea.

English Revised Version
But whoso shall cause one of these little ones which believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.

Webster's Bible Translation
But whoever shall cause one of these little ones who believe in me, to sin, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Weymouth New Testament
But whoever shall occasion the fall of one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for him to have a millstone hung round his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

World English Bible
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea.

Young's Literal Translation
and whoever may cause to stumble one of those little ones who are believing in me, it is better for him that a weighty millstone may be hanged upon his neck, and he may be sunk in the depth of the sea

cid
24607

Could we get the Proverbs references as well?

cid
24609

Well you could look them up for yourself, but ok here ya go.

Proverbs 22:15

New International Version (©1984)
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.

New Living Translation (©2007)
A youngster's heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Foolishness is firmly attached to a child's heart. Spanking will remove it far from him.

King James Bible
Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

American King James Version
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

American Standard Version
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; But the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Bible in Basic English
Foolish ways are deep-seated in the heart of a child, but the rod of punishment will send them far from him.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, and the rod of correction shall drive it away.

Darby Bible Translation
Folly is bound in the heart of a child; the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

English Revised Version
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Webster's Bible Translation
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

World English Bible
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child: the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

Young's Literal Translation
Folly is bound up in the heart of a youth, The rod of chastisement putteth it far from him.

cid
24610

Proverbs 23:13

New International Version (©1984)
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Don't fail to discipline your children. They won't die if you spank them.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Do not hesitate to discipline a child. If you spank him, he will not die.

King James Bible
Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

American King James Version
Withhold not correction from the child: for if you beat him with the rod, he shall not die.

American Standard Version
Withhold not correction from the child; For if thou beat him with the rod, he will not die.

Bible in Basic English
Do not keep back training from the child: for even if you give him blows with the rod, it will not be death to him.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die.

Darby Bible Translation
Withhold not correction from the child; for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die:

English Revised Version
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beat him with the rod, he shall not die.

Webster's Bible Translation
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

World English Bible
Don't withhold correction from a child. If you punish him with the rod, he will not die.

Young's Literal Translation
Withhold not from a youth chastisement, When thou smitest him with a rod he dieth not.

cid
24611

And Proverbs 29:15

New International Version (©1984)
The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother.

New Living Translation (©2007)
To discipline a child produces wisdom, but a mother is disgraced by an undisciplined child.

English Standard Version (©2001)
The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
The rod and reproof give wisdom, But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
A spanking and a warning produce wisdom, but an undisciplined child disgraces his mother.

King James Bible
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame.

American King James Version
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself brings his mother to shame.

American Standard Version
The rod and reproof give wisdom; But a child left to himself causeth shame to his mother.

Bible in Basic English
The rod and sharp words give wisdom: but a child who is not guided is a cause of shame to his mother.

Douay-Rheims Bible
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but the child that is left to his own will bringeth his mother to shame.

Darby Bible Translation
The rod and reproof give wisdom; but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

English Revised Version
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself causeth shame to his mother.

Webster's Bible Translation
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

World English Bible
The rod of correction gives wisdom, but a child left to himself causes shame to his mother.

Young's Literal Translation
A rod and reproof give wisdom, And a youth let away is shaming his mother.

cid
24612

So causing the child to stumble or sin is an offense, failing to teach the child is reproved.

Is that what you get from these passages?

Going on
So, if we are considering the scriptures as the source of guidance, then spanking, as an offense, is in the same realm as with-holding junk food, most likely an offense from the child's point of view, but not condemned in the text.

I can't read the mind of Jesus, so I don't know what He would do. Anything anybody says about Jesus' opinion of spanking is inferred from the text.

Here's what I think. If you only spank when you are at the end of your rope, than you are most likely abusing your child. Not just physically, but with the storm of emotion that surrounds the spanking. If you are going to spank, spank before you get mad. If you are already mad, it is too late to spank.

cid
24619

How about never, ever spank, no matter what? Spanking is hitting, hitting is abuse, no matter whether you feel you have words from a book to back up the abuse. Little children, all children, and adults as well, learn from a positive example and being treated with respect by everyone who is suposed to care for them. Respectful actions speak louder than words.

cid
24621

I may have given the impression that I am interested in debating this post, I am not. Being a non-believer I could care less what the bible say's I should or should not do. The only reason for my response was to point out that the poster was using a passage out of context, and to also point out that there are several areas in the bible that condone spanking.

cid
24638

This doesn't really go here, but I didn't want to start a new thread, and I wanted to share this idea that crossed my mind this morning as I was praying.

My rights as a Christian in the US.

Matthew 5:39-41 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Luke 14:7-11 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them, When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him; And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

What do we spend more time thinking about. The passage above, or the passage below?

Bill of Rights 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; . . .

Just askin'

cid
24707

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

cid
25533

Matthew 5:17 (KJV)

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

cid
25534

Oh no, my son came home 15 minutes late last night. Must go gather the posse and have him stoned to death. What a load of absolute rubbish. Yes, I am a non believer and with view like that from the religious fanatics I am very glad of that.
Personally, I do not spank and in my role as an Early Years Educator, that would be against my job description and everything I have learned professionally. However, I do believe that this is the choice that should be left in the hands of individual parents. The only problem is where to draw the line between a spanking and child abuse.What you religious fanatics seem to be advocating is extreme child abuse and I only hope that you don't have children yourselves.

cid
25608

Oh, junieg, it is sooooooo good that you are back!

cid
25612

Wendleskins, what is the solution for parents who have been consistent in their discipline procedures but see little if any progress? Tell us how you discipline your children when they misbehave.

cid
26543

Very idealistic, but doesn't work with every child. I find your outlook very narrow and naive.

cid
26671

So are you saying that your interpretation is correct? Could you please interpret Proverbs 23:13 for us and tell us how we have misinterpreted them meaning of it? It seems pretty straight forward to me.

Proverbs 23:13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

cid
27219

Still waiting for a reply Jim.

cid
27238

Jim, does that mean you wont answer the question? How is that verse misinterpreted?

cid
27567